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Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield interviewed by Sumi Somaskanda of BBC World News

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Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield
U.S. representative to the United Nations
New York, New York
April 24, 2023

on delivery

question: Ambassador, it’s a pleasure to have you with us. I wanted to ask you about one of the stronger comments made today by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov: As was the case during the Cold War, we have reached a dangerous, perhaps even more dangerous threshold. The situation has been exacerbated by the loss of multilateralism and loss of confidence.

question: What do you think?

Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield: If there is any loss of trust in multilateralism, it is Russia’s fault. We’re dealing with some very critical issues — pandemics, climate change, issues of war and peace. That’s when Russia invaded one of its smaller neighbors and really just challenged the entire foundation of the UN Charter, all the values ​​we’ve all worked towards since the UN was founded.

So, if this is a problem for the Russians, then they are responsible for creating it. Their hypocrisy today is unbelievable, when in fact they call for a discussion of multilateralism when they take such an aggressive unilateral action to attack one of their neighbours.

question: UN observers saw Lavrov’s speech as a direct provocation to the West. How do you handle this provocative behavior?

Ambassador Thomas Greenfield: They are not just provoking the West. They have angered the entire UN system. They pissed off every Member State. I still think we have to point out that 141 countries condemned their actions and they heard all 14 members of the Security Council defending the values ​​of the UN Charter differently and condemning their actions as questioning their own commitment to multilateralism and their commitment to the UN System commitment.

Their unprovoked aggression against Ukraine is unjustified. It cannot be placed before us as the defender of multilateralism. What Russia needs to do is withdraw its troops from Ukraine and end this war.

question: You accused Russia of violating international law by wrongfully detaining Americans. So, you called for the release of Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich and ex-Marine Paul Whelan, and you actually invited his family to the meeting today. Did you try to talk to Sergei Lavrov about these two Americans?

Ambassador Thomas Greenfield: The Secretary of State has spoken to Lavrov, and I have spoken to my counterpart here in New York, their Permanent Representative, Vasily Nebenzia, and raised the issue at that level. I have no plans to meet with Lavrov, but he knows where we stand and he heard me loud and clear in the Security Council today.

question: The UN Security Council should prevent wars like the one we are seeing now. Is it a failure of the institution that Russia has invaded one country before – we know about Crimea – and can invade another country, another country, and not another country, while presiding over this institution?

Ambassador Thomas Greenfield: It has shaken the confidence of Member States in the Council, but the Council continues to function. We will continue to address issues of global peace and security. We will meet tomorrow to discuss the situation in Sudan. We have resolved the situation in Libya. We held talks last week on the situation in Yemen. So despite Russia’s unprovoked attack on Ukraine, the Security Council is still functioning. But for sure, what they’re doing is making the world see the council differently and it’s impressive to us how important it is to see security council reform and really grow the security council to take into account the challenges we have today and security, many of which are different from what we faced when the United Nations was founded nearly 80 years ago.

question: What kind of reforms would prevent one of the permanent members from invading the other?

Ambassador Thomas Greenfield: First, we need to make the Council more representative of the world. So right now, there are no permanent representatives from Africa on the Council, and no permanent representatives from Latin America. So expanding the council and making it more representative is one of the things we certainly want to do.

question: You mentioned Latin America. We know that Sergey Lavrov traveled all over South and Central America, including Cuba, before his trip to New York. Are you concerned about Russia’s growing influence in the region?

Ambassador Thomas Greenfield: Russia is doing its best to get as many countries as possible on their side. But the truth is, only five countries consistently support Russia in the resolutions we submit to the General Assembly. So, they’re in the minority, and they’re trying to get more people into their field, and their efforts are failing.

question: Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield, thank you so much for joining us.

Ambassador Thomas Greenfield: It was great to be with you, Sumi. Thank you for having me.

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